Being preached at from the stage
about tolerance & acceptance
whilst being shown images of women bearing their breasts for the crowd
watching a woman dance provocatively with lots of men,
only one her boyfriend
smoking weed
sniffing drugs
drinking beer.
This weird mix of philosophy & physical feeling
reminds me of The Matrix Reloaded;
unrealistic idealism mixed with sensual indulgence.
He’s not wrong
this IS their church
this is where they heal their hurts
where they lift their hands to their idols
are preached to
develop their morals
experience their ‘highs’
feel valued and part of something.
Here they find they belong
find something to live for
find something to fight against
find something to worship
something to take the pain away
to distract them from their lives.
Actually, that makes me rather sad.
Which bit makes you sad? Just the last bit? Or do you mean the intent behind it makes you sad? EXPLAIN YOURSELF…. please?
Well I was going to post something more coherent but it was difficult to actually do so. Let’s see…
I think you’re aware that in some ways I find a certain commonality of experience between what you’ve talked about regarding your religious experiences as a Christian, and what I do as a Pagan, which leads to the thought that there is a common element to all religious activity, somewhere buried underneath all the interpretations of what it actually is, even if it’s just triggering the same reactions in the brain or whatever.
What this post seems to be saying is that people are finding a similar kind of experience in the music festival, that they’re not getting that feeling any other way than by engaging in potentially self-destructive activities – i.e. sex, drugs and rock ‘n’ roll (the latter only really being bad because of the volume level and what it does to your poor ears).
It’s sad to me that some people won’t know what it’s like to be in the loving presence of God – be it your God or one of mine, or someone else’s – and feel that kind of happiness and fulfilment frequently and easily.
Except it’s not just that of course, that’s only a part of what my religion is, but it seems the only part these people can attain and that’s a shame because I’d want everyone to have what we each have.
Did that make any sense?
Yes, that makes sense, and whilst I don’t agree with you, I can see what you mean.
My belief is that the only way to experience “the loving presence of God” is in a Christian context. However, I can see some similarity in the experience of being in a huge crowd of people all dancing to the same beat, singing the same words and doing the same actions. There is a sense of euphoria that comes with that.
So the question I have (for myself & other Christians really) is how do you distinguish between feeling that is a purely physical/mental thing and the feeling that you get when God is at work in you. Having said that, I don’t think I have a problem making that distinction, and, when I am in such a crowd, be it at a concert, festival or in a club, and people are getting built up to a musical high, my thoughts are nearly always on God and using my movement and singing as worship to him… So it’s easy for me to feel the distinction, as it depends on who/what my mind is on, however that doesn’t seem to answer the question as a generality. Ah well… 🙂
You’re right, it’s a hideously difficult question to answer. Because this kind of question is hard, there will always be atheists who are absolutely determined that all we experience as religious people is actually just something we’re misinterpreting. Which is irritating, but in my view that’s their loss.
But then I’d think that you’re missing out on something by not being a Pagan and doing the kinds of thing I do, and I’m sure you think that I’d really be better off becoming a Christian. There I’m walking a fine line as Pagans aren’t supposed to prostelytise (did I spell it right? You know what I mean I’m sure), but if you’re doing something good you naturally want to share it with people!
But I guess I can’t say that your way’s wrong. I just think that my way’s better 😉
I see what you’re saying and it’s nice to hear someone at least partly understanding our point of view – the wanting to share something good.
However I believe that you are wrong and I am right. I don’t believe your perception of things is correct. I also don’t believe that proselytising (that’s how my spell checker said I should spell it) is inherently wrong, although I guess that depends on how you define it.
But again, I’m sure you know that. I’m glad there are others out there who think atheists are missing out 🙂
I’m been meaning to comment on this for a while…but I wasn’t sure that I was exactly sure what I think is correct – its more of a thought in progress – so I didn’t. However, I figure that the worst that can happen is that you can disagree and help me decide what is closest to correct anyway… I used to worry about getting ‘carried away on emotion’ in a Church setting – i.e. being unable to separate that that was from God and that that was from being caught up in the feeling of being a big crowd of people who are all singing/praying/dancing in the same direction. I reckon that its important to know that its not /just/ being carried along with the moment, but once that is firm in your mind – is it not ultimately God who created us able to experience ‘the moment’? So it follows on that being ‘carried away with the crowd’ isn’t always a bad thing – but part of how we are meant to be and meant to enjoy.
I think thats what I meant to say…and looking back I’m not at all sure I’ve added anything to what you’ve already said – but it seems abit of a waste to delete it all 🙂